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Post by Rockhound on Feb 13, 2004 19:13:46 GMT -5
Much has been said about Poe's involvement in the Beale mystery but what do you think? Is there any compelling evidence? Do you have anything of import to add to the debate? Yes? Then this is the forum for you!
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Ravens3rd
New Member
Quote the Raven..."Mistakes are knowledge, learn by them or forever live in ignorance"
Posts: 1
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Post by Ravens3rd on Feb 16, 2004 13:40:04 GMT -5
Glad to see you have a Poe Section in your forum. Maybe now we can get some useful information going.
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Post by Rockhound on Mar 7, 2004 16:03:03 GMT -5
I'm happy to see that we have another new member, and this time from the webs premier (or should that be "only") website devoted to the connection between Poe and Beale! Anyway, welcome to the site!
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Post by Wild Card on Mar 9, 2004 13:14:25 GMT -5
Poe was good... to that I will agree. And probably, at some time... 'conceived the idea' of the mystery...but never got around to executing the plan. What he may have called it... who knows! BUT... he was not the one that provided the necessary cryptographical insights and methods that were used for the Beale mystery. That honor alone goes to: Lewis Carroll A master mathematician and cryptographer. To see some of the extent that he and the others were involved in the creation of the Beale mystery, and the time-line as to why the mystery wasn't in the public domain until 1885, you simply have to look at his 1871 creation: "Through the Looking Glass" In chapter #7... 'The Lion and the Unicorn'... starting at the section which begins: "Not at all," said the King"... and continues to the end of the chapter. In that section, he describes his '2' accomplices in the creation of the Beale mystery. The 'Unicorn'... Samuel Langhorn Clemens; aka.- Mark Twain... who can be credited with the creation of the scenario taking place in the Western United States, that he loved so much. The 'Lion'... himself, Charles Dodgson; aka.- Lewis Carroll... the English 'Lion'... who can be credited with the creation of the 'cryptographical twists and turns' that stymied the cryptographical elite.
And then, there is "H" , the leader of the group... also known world-wide, for his ability, as a 'reporter/writer/author'... George Alfred Townsend The man, who, with out question... succeeded in taking the talents of all '3' and creating one of the greatest literary enigmas ever created.
To "PROVE" beyond a doubt, that Townsend created the Beale mystery... you simply have to 'read' his books: 1884... "The Entailed Hat" 1886... "Katy of Catoctin"
Each of these books contains the 'essence' of everything found in the Beale mystery. Check the 'words' and the style of his books. Then compare your feelings and findings to the Beale story.
I have often said, that the basis of the date: Jan 5th was for the English holiday--- Nov 5th--- Guy Fawkes Day--- and the event known as : The Gunpowder Plot of 1605 In that book (The Entailed Hat) he has a character, who dresses in the same style as Guy Fawkes. And even has a pet... a "black RAVEN"... as a tribute to Edgar Poe. He has a negro servant named "Ashby"... the same name as Confederate General-- Turner Ashby... the man I credit with being the 'model' for the description of: Thomas Jefferson Beale
As for the date of May 9... it is "May 9, 1800"... the birthday of John Brown... who led the raid on the arsenal at Harpers Ferry, West Virginia... and is the basis for his book: Katy of Catoctin In that book you will find a character, that of a man named: John Beall... who loved roaming the hills of Jefferson County, West Virginia. Just east of where I live, here in Berkeley County, WV.
By the way--- did you take notice to the dates of these '2' books: 1884 1886 Look at the last digits of those dates: "4" + "6" The same as the beginning numbers from the cipher #2 message... and the "key" to opening-up the rest of the information found in the cipher #2 message. AMAZING!!! isn't it?
O.K.--- now you can call me "a son-of-a-bitch" all you want... because "I HAVE 'BEAT' all of you. Every last one." And I don't feel bad about it at all. Also... don't you wish I would tell you "WHY" and for "WHAT" all of this was done? Well, guess again? I'm just 'not' ready too do that!!! But.... very soon... All OF YOU... will absolutely... HATE MY GUTS!!! My only regret is that "I JUST DIDN'T HAVE ANY COMPETITION!!!" Have A Nice Day!!! B-Y-E now... I have other things to attend to.
Wild Card
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Steven
Respected Member
Here to stay the course..............
Posts: 18
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Post by Steven on Mar 10, 2004 0:53:16 GMT -5
Hello Wild Card, Since you profess having solved this great enigma, perhaps you can shed light on another mystery? Why did these men construct the vault? One other thing before I go, I believe you once posted info concerning "V" shaped fishing pots? I researched the "V" and assumed it was fishing pots....... until I discovered that "V" shaped foothills also run into waterways, these were often called "reefs". Later......past my bedtime Steven
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Post by Wild Card on Mar 10, 2004 8:24:33 GMT -5
The only "vault" they constructed... is the "illusion" of things that all of you guys have 'seen/found' over the past century... "that are not there."
Just about everything up this way is a "V" shaped foothill. Is this question supposed to mean something? Never heard of any 'reefs' up here... only in the ocean. Believe me! all of your questions can be answered, by what you find in the books I mentioned. READ THEM... and they will 'set you free!!'
Wild Card
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Post by Rockhound on Mar 10, 2004 13:49:06 GMT -5
Hi Wild Card, As my interest in Beale stems more from the codes themselves than the story behind them, I can't comment on your findings but what really intrigues me is how you came to link all of those texts together. What I mean to say is, did you simply come across each of those books independently in the normal way, ie, you saw a book you fancied and read it, or did you seek them out with the preconceived notion that they might be involved in the Beale mystery somehow? It seems unlikely to me that you would just happen accross the very texts you needed to solve the riddle simply by coincidence. I just had to ask!
Also, I note that although you have joined the forum as a member, your last 2 posts were made as a guest, so I guess you didn't sign in before posting. I would recommend signing in because any Tom, Dick or Harry could sign themselves as "Wild Card" and pass themselves off as you, which I'm sure you'll agree would be a bad thing! If you can't remember your password let me know via email and I'll set you up with a new one!
Finally, If you truly have solved the Beale mystery then worry ye not, I for one won't hate you, I'll simply demand (respectfully) that you display your solution here for all to see, in this forum, so that I can say from that day forward... "This was the forum that announced to the world that the Beale codes were finally cracked!" Or are you planning to write a book?
Rockster
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Post by Wild Card on Mar 11, 2004 10:29:26 GMT -5
Well, sir; First of all, to tell you the truth... I had the sign-in procedure and password written down on something(don't remember what) and in this mess of "organized clutter" that I call --- my study --- it has become lost. I think it was on the back of something that I gave Charlie Mason last year, when he and David Mason and Reno came to visit. To answer your question, about whether I was planning to write a book... the answer is 'unequivocably' "NO!" Although I did put a lot of my findings in a manuscript that I wrote for my wife to use should I die of the heart condition I have, before I finish... what I feel is "my assignment in this life" as dictated by Fate, or 'higher power' or whatever else you want to call it. I gave a copy of it to Charlie Mason, and he passed it on to David Mason... with the strict agreement, that no one else would see it. Also let me make it perfectly clear --- right here and now--- I have NOT solved the riddle totally... as yet. I fight the heart condition I have every day... the weakness... the constant fatigue... the inability to even climb a set of stairs at work... without having to stop for a while and catch my breath. I generally sleep all day when I get home and all weekend. Working when strength allows. What I "HAVE SOLVED" is the answer as to 'who' created the Beale mystery and anything about that mystery. Mostly, because I did live in the area 'that it was created for.'
In your message, you state, that: "You find it 'unlikely' that I would 'just happen across the very texts needed to solve the riddle simply by coincidence." Well sir... I don't know if you would call it 'coincidence or not.' I like to think of it as 'a PLANNED INTERFERENCE' in my... what used to be 'normal' life. Because, since I became involved in this damned mystery... my life has been anything but normal. Believe me! In all actuality... I shouldn't even be involved in this mystery! I don't have... nor have I ever had... any cryptographical training or aspirations or interest in anything cryptographical. Not when I started... and not now. In high school I tried to get by with the least amount of strain as possible... as a 'general education student.' But even that only lasted for 1 day. My second day found me in the councilor's office... "having to take" on a heavy academic curriculum. Not that I minded... I could do the work. I even had aspirations of being admitted to the Brevard Institute of Space Technology at one time so I could become a great physicist. But that would have made me 'not' what my daddy wanted or needed... so after 2 years as an academic... I went back to the 'shops' as my daddy demanded of the school. Showing the other kids 'how' to weld and put cars back together and re-build engines(gas & diesel). And believe it or not... I still graduated in the upper 1/4th of the class of 416 students. My daddy put me under the wheel of a tractor/trailer and I started driving 'cross-country' for a friend of his. Then as a diesel mechanic... a textile printer... a construction equipment mechanic and operator... and a mason and carpenter--- building houses. So... you see... I shouldn't even be doing this. I just don't have the aptitude or the skills for it... but here I am none the less... showing you how this thing was conceived... put into execution... and hopefully, should I be allotted the time yet... just what it was done for. Which is really quite interesting, I must say.
You said earlier that you thought it unlikely that I should just come across the things I needed to find the answers to my questions about this mystery: And I agree totally! Do you realize how strange it makes you feel to have something on your mind... such as a point of interest about the Beale mystery... drop what you're doing and just go to the library(pre-computer days)... walk down an aisle(totally unplanned)... and select(without hesitation!)... just the text needed. UNREAL!!!
Now... as to your first point of interest: The Beale Codes namely ciphers #1 & #3 I am NOT INTERESTED in them... and neither should you be. My 'findings/feelings'... all say one thing: FAKES Just like looking for the 'pea' in a New York shell game. Their only purpose is to give the mystery some 'credibility' so that you won't walk away from the mystery... but take a chance at finding "the reason" for the mystery. Think about it. With cipher #2 'allegedly' deciphered(and I only say that because as far as I know I'm the only to have ever seen the real message given by cipher #2) and nothing else to go on... the Beale mystery "without the 2 remaining ciphers"... would have been DROPPED LIKE A HOT ROCK!!! And the efforts of Townsend, Carroll and Twain would have been in vain. So out of 'necessity'... they were added.
So by now, your question probably is: If the other two ciphers mean absolutely nothing... what is there to lead you to what ever is supposed to be found? And the answer to that is quite simple: another message And just where is that message? right out in the open... one letter at a time... in reverse... just where it has always been. You just don't recognize it as such.
Sir... it has been a long night at work... I'm extremely exhausted, need to take my medicine and go to sleep. I hope you will forgive my having to leave now, but should you have further questions and I'm sure you do... just ask and I will diligently provide a satisfactory answer. And please try to READ the BOOKS mentioned... remember that the mystery was created by highly intelligent and creative men... writers/authors/dreamers. That's why they were chosen.
the real Wild Card ask the Masons... they'll tell you that there is no other Wild Card like this one!!!
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Post by Rockhound on Mar 11, 2004 10:59:53 GMT -5
Email me and I'll sort you out with a new password (which you can change at your leisure!)
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Post by Wild card on Mar 12, 2004 11:33:31 GMT -5
Rockster--- I would like for you and everyone else to READ this posting, all of it... and let me know what you think. Remember... this posting only 'grazes the surface' of the information I have about this mystery. Now how many other 'experts' can truly say that?
In order to back-up my claim about Townsend... have you ever seen this?
The cipher #2 message... "Why do you think that the Beale treasure 'pamphlet' does not include a copy of the cipher #2 message... as it is 'originally' deciphered?
"ihavedepositediNtHecountyofBedfordaboutfourmiLesfrombufordsinanexcavatioNorvauLtsixfeetbeLoWthesurfaCeoftHeGroundthefolLowiNGartiClesbelonGinGjoiNtLy........."
Did you ever give it any thought? I did. I wondered about it a lot. And then I saw it. The reason: the 'tree' hidden in the forest. A 'single word.' "JeweLs" Not so much a word... but a "place!" "J..... eweLs" = "J / Lewes" Lewes.... Delaware A simple enough 'anagram'... that any one should have seen... but didn't. The area where George Alfred Townsend 'lived' with his family as a young man.
Let me do you one better, about the cipher #2 message, that so many other clever and highly educated experts "should have seen... and didn't." Let me show you the process "for finding the TREASURE" contained in that message: "I have deposited, in the county of Bedford, about (four) miles from Bufords, in an excavation or vault, (six) feet below the surface of the ground, the following articles, belonging jointly to the parties, whose names are given in number three, herewith. The first deposit, consisted of ten hundred and fourteen pounds of gold and thirty eight hundred and twelve pounds of silver, deposited (Nov)., (eighteen nineteen). The second was made (Dec)., eighteen twenty one, and consisted of nineteen hundred and seven pounds of gold, and (twelve hundred and eighty eight) of silver; also jewels, obtained in St. Louis, in exchange to save transportation, and valued at (thirteen) thousand dollars. The above is securely packed in iron pots with iron covers. The vault is roughly lined with stone and the vessels rest on solid stone and are covered with others. Paper number one describes the exact locality of the vault so that no difficulty will be had in finding it.
These '6' sentences... give so much INFORMATION, that it is impossible to give an accounting of all of it, at this time. My purpose right now is to show you the 'path' to a "TREASURE." Take note of the words in "(...)"
The "4" and the "6" 'OPEN' the message, as such: In the May 9 (Ever) letter... 4th paragraph... it reads... (By me)ans of this you...... The "By me... are the last two words ever written by William Shakespeare... and the 'link' to opening the message. It is believed by literary scholars, that at the time that King James was having the King James version of the Bible translated into English... that one of the 'scribes' was William Shakespeare... and at that time, it is believed that he would have been "46" years old. And it is also believed that Shakespeare had a part in the 'translation/writing' of the Psalms. This is further exemplified in Psalm 46. By counting FORWARD into Psalm 46... for 46 words... you come to the word: "shake" By going to the end of Psalm 46, excluding the word 'Selah'... and counting BACKWARDS into Psalm 46... for another 46 words... you come to: "spear" Consequently, you have: "shake" + "spear" or simply: "Shakespear" This is the method that is now applied to the Declaration of Independence, as supplied in the Beale pamphlet, and to find the purpose of the "1819." In the "Douay-Rheims" Catholic Bible... you will find that Psalm 118... has '176' verses. In the King James Bible... you will find that Psalm 119... also has '176' verses. Using the Beale pamphlet supplied Declaration of Independence... count FORWARD to the 176th word: likely Then go to the 176th word from the end... the number 1146th word... which is: denounced These are the "Nov" + "Dec" as given earlier. But they just don't look like it. Do they? That is because, you need " 3 letters in and 3 letters across" to find them, in both instances. The '176th' word is "likely"... and '3 letters in and 3 letters across gives you: "kel" And in LATIN: "kel" translates to "dec" The 1146th word is "denounced"... and '3 letters in and 3 letters across' gives you: "nou" And in Old style English: "nou" becomes "nov" Now you have the "nov + dec" Look at the places they occupied: #176 + #1146 You will select the 'middle numbers'(this is because Townsend was the 2nd of 3 brothers)... and get "07" and "14" Place the number "13" in front of the "07"... to get "1307" Then place the "13" in front of the "14"... to get "1314" This gives you the DATES of: "1307" + "1314" O.K! Any ideas on the dates?
These are the DATES that it took "Dante Alighieri" to write his epic poem: "The Divine Comedy" You now need a copy of The Divine Comedy... but it has to be a special copy of it. A good 'TRANSLATED' copy... one translated from the original Italian. I found that the translation by: Henry F. Cary to be the one needed. Do you remember how in the Beale letters, it was emphasized, that "they needed someone to CARRY out their wishes." Well, this is him: Henry F. CARY These are huge volumes of text... and theoretically, the next step could be anywhere within the text. But what you are looking for is easier to find, if you go back to the numbers 176 and 1146... and look at the last number of each. A '6' and another '6. Now go to page #66... and you will find: A company, with whom I may not sort, Approaches. I commend my TREASURE to thee, Wherein I yet survive; my sole request.
Please note that the word TREASURE is the only word in Italics... I believe, in all 3 volumes.
There is your TREASURE as provide by the cipher #2 message. This particular section of text... does it also seem to you that it acts as 'a will and testament'... giving the finder of this section(myself)... Full and Legal ownership... of the said TREASURE? What say you?
Before I close... I have one last thing to show you: On page #412 of the "Katy of Catoctin" book (1886), are the last 2 sentences of a poem, which goes: "It iz a job to chop Jane's chain, Not, iss a chop do job Chane's jane."
Is it only a coincidence... or is it FATE, that the only one to find the secrets of this mystery... is myself, and my last name being...............Chane y
I wonder??? ********************************************* Let's back-up a minute to the other enclosure that I marked: "twelve hundred and eighty eight"
Serial Volume 1288 - United States Government, Executive Documents of the House of Representatives, Second Session of the Thirty-ninth Congress, 1866-67, Government Printing Office 1867 The Official Government Investigation into the Assassination of President Abraham Lincoln
NOW!!! What do you say to that????????????????????
Here is something else I want to show you: the FRIEND "NOT TO BE DELIVERED UNTIL JUNE, 1832" DEC LA RA TIONOFIND EPEND ENCE * Start at the '*'(f)... go up to the (r)... down to the (i)... up to the (e)... down to the (n)... up to the (d) Enough said? And don't forget... the father of John Wilkes Booth was the stage actor... JUNius Brutus Booth
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Post by Rockhound on Mar 12, 2004 12:38:02 GMT -5
I don't know what to say WC! I am far from qualified to reply in any enlightened fashion to your comments. My Knee-jerk reaction is that I find your analysis to be contrived and outlandish. What do I know though, huh? Anyway...I'll be watching with interest for any replies to this thread!
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Post by Wild Card on Mar 12, 2004 23:03:27 GMT -5
O.K.--- you'll have no problem with me. Now... do me a favor... ERASE all of my postings and remove me as a member! O.K. 'DUDE!!!'
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Post by Rockhound on Mar 13, 2004 13:06:49 GMT -5
WildCard, you miss my point I think... While I may not understand your approach, I still respect it! When I say "Anyway...I'll be watching with interest for any replies to this thread!" I mean it! I may not be in a position to understand or relate to the approach you recommend but I'll surely take notice if it bears fruit! I can't say fairer than that can I?
I have absolutely NO intention of deleting your membership whether you want me to or not! Please take no notice of my comments, my opinions regarding the Beale Ciphers have virtually no relevance!
You are welcome to post your comments here regardless.
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Post by Wild Card on Mar 14, 2004 7:19:59 GMT -5
Rockster... "IF" I have mis-read your intention... please accept my apology! As for not removing my postings and membership... I asked that of you... because I don't really expect that there will be replies from others. So why bother. I have spent years on other forums and simply seen them disappear. And I hold myself partly responsible for those disappearances. That and the complacency of others. After hearing for more than a century from the "elite" on the subject, that, "only the solving" of the other 2 "alleged" ciphers, will their lives have any meaning... other enthusiasts are 'much like those who once believed that the world was flat... that man would never fly... or the automobile was a passing fancy.' They don't want change... they are complacent with the way things are... making claims of one kind or another... so they can sell a book or some kind of video... harrowing their efforts 'to solve the Beale mystery.' BUT... "do they show" those efforts? None that I am aware of. I am the only one to come into their midst and say "YOUR WRONG"... and provide justifiable evidence of such. Information that they can easily research themselves, and draw their own conclusions from. I don't condemn them for their feelings. Contrair... I understand those feelings. I was in the same boat once myself. I didn't start out just finding the answers 'right-off-the-bat.' Back in Nov of 1980... "I was handed" a magazine containing a 4"x4" story of the Beale Treasure. "Here," I was told. "You set up there in your yard, holding discussion groups with all those other people who think your so smart... figure this out and maybe you'll find a way to 'pay your rent on time!'" I then thought of the teachings of my mentor, Dr. Gene Scott, Ph.D. --- Stanford University... paused for a moment... and then said, "It's a piece of cake!!! and went back to the discussion group. I even threw the magazine away. But found myself that night, digging through the trash, to recover the magazine. Even then, I knew that I didn't have the right qualifications to challenge this mystery. The next morning found me at the front door of the library... waiting to get in. The Innes book was the only thing available and I checked it out. Plus some books on cryptography. During the next couple of weeks, I focused on a lot of things. One of them being the word 'transportation'... which I associated with the techniques of the cryptographer: Juan della Porta
For almost 2 years, I tried every conceivable cryptographic method known to man. But having no one with whom to consort, I can only assume that I was doing the procedures correctly. I went to work with the mystery on my mind. Thinking about every paragraph... every word... the structure of every sentence. I worked on the mystery late into the night after coming home from a hard day at work. Weekends were spent at the library, checking for anything significant. During that 2 year period... I created my own hell. I also had my wife of 18 years in the hospital... dieing of cancer. Then our daughter disappeared with her boy-friend. Just to be returned a year later with my grand-daughter. One night... after visiting my wife, who was now in a coma... as usual, I started on the ciphers. Wondering just why they couldn't be broken. Convinced, just as all the others were... that they were real... and by solving them... I would be able to perhaps save the life of my wife and to find our daughter. Later that night... after making sure the doors and windows were locked... and I was totally alone... I went to bed. About 4am... I suddenly awoke. The left side of my face was stinging and hurt like hell. I felt as if someone had just 'hauled off-and-hit-me' in the face as hard as they could. The bathroom mirror showed the left side of my face... red and puffy... just as if I had been punched. A search of the house proved fruitless. Windows and doors still locked. No one there but me. But still there was the imprint of what looked to be the imprint of a hand on the side of my face. Moments later... a program I had only been listening to on TV and what the man said who was being interviewed came to mind. He was a clothes designer who was now very successful, while most other designers were virtually giving up the business. What he had said that night was the start of the change in the way I went about searching for answers. He had said, "that he observed what the other designers were doing and failing at. Then he went in the opposite direction... and became hugely successful." A few days later, I saw in the newspaper that he had died after he gave the interview that I had heard. Within a 2 year period after that... I had accumulated nearly all of the information, that you have thus far seen. In the spring of 1985... my wife died and I went about the house and destroyed every scrap of information on the Beale Treasure that I had. Blaming it for being the reason that I had not been able to spend more time with my wife before she passed. Shortly after... our daughter returned. But for me, the Beale Treasure also died. And it stayed that way for about 10 years. When I did resume the search for answers... it was in the OPPOSITE direction of what everyone else was doing. That was my approach then... and that is my approach now.
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Post by FunkiMunki on Mar 30, 2004 15:02:38 GMT -5
What about the letters and the innkeeper? Was he in on all of this? Why wouldhe spend his entire life trying to decipher the papers if hewas in on it? HOw did they have access to the papers? Are you saying Beale died and came back as Townsend and than wrote in 1871 about papers not existant to the public?
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