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Post by charlie mason on Nov 4, 2006 14:05:22 GMT -5
Since you have insisted if I make remarks in the manner that I do,I should have something to impress you,I thought about it and decided that maybe we should see if you are as bright as you claim. So with out further ado,here we go;
In the pamphlet section under the part of the Morriss statement we find this comment...According to Beale everything necessary to solve the mystery is in the box...so with this thought in mind are there clues to this effect...yes there are,namely;
1.the key will reach you in time.
2. none of us are to be enumerated with the living.
3.such a key I have left in the hands of a friend in this place.
4.you will divide the contents into 31 equal parts.
5.if death or sickness to which all are liable....hand to him this letter and delegate your authority.
So now why does Beale tell Morriss to pass on the May 9th letter,unless there is something there....ok then what might it be?
So if the key is in time are there time related clues...well maybe,lets try this
the date May 9, I only seceded in reaching here yesterday May 8, I shall remain here a week 7 days or ten days 10 absent certainly no less than 2years -2years
well now this is certainly interesting if we convert the month names to numeric gives something then that looks like
5 - 9 - 8 - 7 - 10 - (-2yrs) What do you think this would give us...maybe try may (5) 1789-(2yrs) may 1787 the month and year of the constitutional convention Now look at hold the box for the period of ten years might give us a clue such as the constitution had seven articles and ten amendments ... and thirty-nine signers the June 1832 could very well be 618 32 The 618 being the number of characters in code three leaving 32 ..this presented a problem till I saw none were to be counted with the living and discovered that 8 of the signers of the constitution were still alive in Jan 1822 leaving thirty-one as being dead the proper number of people needed for the puzzle how ever we should take note that Beale did not sign the Jan 5 letter ,so perhaps his name is not included in the signers so where would that leave it..another problem,but one that has already been solved...if you use the given solution to code 2 you will find that it uses all of the number groups but 15
so then Thomas J Beale Va must fit there giving us 32 names leaving him at the top of list where the captains name should appear..
SO NOW YOU SHOULD REMEMBER THAT THE KEY WILL MERELY CONSIST OF THE CONTENTS OF THE VAULT WITH ITS EXACT LOCATION,AND THE NAMES AND SUCH...SO AS I SAID THIS PUZZLE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MARK TWAIN JESSIE JAMES OR THE ADAMS-ONIS TREATY....JUST THE CLUES THAT ARE CONTAINED WITH IN THE PAMPHLET THAT WILL TAKE YOU TO WHERE YOU NEED TO BE...
I may not be smart ,but I do know how to read and realize that words mean things...So NAO why dont you try reading the pamphlet and make up your own mind...because I have made made up mine by trying to decide what it isnt... bt clodhopper
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Post by TOMm on Nov 4, 2006 22:36:54 GMT -5
hello
your break down of the letter is interesting
would you mind telling the names of the ones that were living? and what there position in the goverment was?
i know that albert gallitan was the last person that knew all the original signers was living in 1832 ex treasurer of USA
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Post by TOMm on Nov 5, 2006 17:42:04 GMT -5
Thank you DaveMason
i sort of figured that if a hierarcy was in formation of passing the box along who passed it to morriss by Agent of TJB i have come a cross the name Mr. Beale (no first name) talking to jefferson over a fence and in that same book it speaks of Robert Morris moving all his books to maryland and then returning to get his wife . But it also says he lost a wagon train of treasure and was exhonerated by congress of any charges of wrong doing Its an old book by the name of THE SIGNERS OF THE DECLARATION of INDEPENDENCE how could somebody loose a wagon train of anything unless it was in battle or stolen?. The book didnt state how he lost it This off subject but ROBERT MORRIS (Signer) owned property in the Westmoreland county Penna where a Thomas Jeffeson Beale lived also Robert Morriss and George Washinton were joint owners of a taveren and lots of land in that same county , there is a plaque in that town stating thier history of land owners Thanks Dave
TOMm
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Post by Not An Option on Nov 6, 2006 3:31:15 GMT -5
I think I have actually discovered a time-based second key for the Beale ciphers that relies upon the Gillogly strings and the original Declaration of Independence key. Interestingly, there's one slight transposition error (using a letter when they'd obviously intended the next one along in the alphabet) as occurred a few times in the original Beale cipher, leading me to believe it is genuine.
First of all, recall there were 3 ciphers, and Beale mentions waiting "a week" when discussing the key. I think this is his way of saying 7 days, so we start off with a three by seven grid. Draw up a grid of 3 columns and 7 rows. Throughout the Beale letters and pamphlet, there are several different ways periods of time a referred to - sometimes just a year, sometimes a specific date, sometimes a day and month and year.
It's more likely than not that this was done for a reason, so there must be some numbers to extract from these dates.
But to start with the first row.. The Gillogly sequence emerges when you use the DOI key on another of the ciphers. The alphabetic sequence is obviously intentional and lets us know we're on the right track. The odds of the alphabet popping up like that by chance alone are too astronomical otherwise. There's 25 letters that make up the uninterrupted sequence, so our first number for the first row is 25. Now.. why use an alphabetic sequence instead of a plain message? To make it jump out at us, like I said before. We notice the natural progression. Another phrase for natural progression or understandable sequence is "human course". "Human course" is familiar - both words occur in the VERY first line of the DOI key that we've been using! Now that CAN'T be a coincidence as well... Human is word number 6, course is word number 4. So our first triplet is 25, 6, 4. Write them across the top row of our 3 x 7 grid.
Second row: The full date of the last letter - and thus reliable bit of information about the code - is January 5th, 1822. If you write it out in abbreviated form, 1/5/22. Remove the first slash and you have our first two numbers of the 2nd row: 15 and 22. This final letter also contains many lengthy paragraphs, but only 9 of them have more than 2 sentences in them, making them 'worthwhile'. Let's put a 9 in the 3rd box. So our 2nd row is 15, 22, 9.
Third row: Another time reference. When Beale writes about the ciphers, he refers to waiting "a few weeks". If he had meant 2 weeks, he could have said "2 weeks" or a "fortnight". If he had meant 4 weeks, he would have said "a month". And it obviously doens't refer to 1 week, so the only other option is he's secretly referring to 3 weeks: 21 days. 21 is the first number of row 3. And he went to the trouble of splitting the code he refers to up into 3 ciphers, so 3 is the next number. The letter containing these paragraphs were broken up into sixteen paragraphs (for no other noticeable reason) so 16 must be a critical number to this part of the cipher. Our third row is 21, 3, 16.
The fourth row's numbers are hidden in the first thing Mr. Morriss writes: "It was in the month of January, 1820..that I first saw and became acquainted with Beale". Obviously this is an important event - Morriss's first encounter with Beale. The date is ?/1/1820. The first digit we come across is 1, so write a 1 down as the first digit of row 4. Remove the slashes, and it looks like an 11 now. So put down an 11. Finally, we've got 18 AND 20 - so which to use? Take the one number between the two, which turns out to be the average of the two numbers so we know we're on the right track: 19. So row 4 is 1, 11, 19.
We've seen rows signifying how to understand the cipher, the last letter of Beale, the way the ciphers are split and the first meeting of Morriss and Beale. Now it's time to count keywords to see where this Beale gold is hidden.. "Beale" appears 18 times, "gold" appears 9 times and "hidden" appeats 8 times. Our fifth row for "Beale gold hidden" is simply 18, 9, 8.
Sixth and 2nd-last row: But what about the treasure itself? The translation of cipher 2 refers to five different types of treasure by quantity: X pounds of gold, Y pounds of silver, so and so pounds of gold, then some silver and also jewels". Why mention gold and silver twice? Why break the weights up? So FIVE could be referred to specifically with regard to the treasure. 5 is our first treasure digit. Now, the treasure was broken up into the non repeating types (1 - jewels) and the repeating types (4 - silver and gold, counted twice), so it's either 14 or 41. Take one minus the other and you get 36, divisible by a bunch of numbers, including 9. Is 9 and 5 significant? Well, they add to be 14, and 14 was one of our earlier treasure digits. So 14 was the correct treasure digit (not 41), and 9 was the way we checked it out. So 5, 14, 9 for the sixth row.
Last row: we've covered every aspect of the Beale ciphers except the location. The Beale ciphers several times refer to one specific treasure that they scouted a location of for a week before moving it somewhere else. Why bother to mention this detail? This is more likely a way to refer to 1, then 7. So out first two digits of the last row MUST be 1 and 7. The last digit of the last row - count the number of times different directions are referred to after the treasure is moved: 20. 20 is our final location number. The last row: 1, 7, 20.
You now have a completed 3 column, 7 row grid whose top row should be 25, 6, 4 and bottom row is 1, 7, 20.
Draw up a blank grid of the same shape and size next to the numbered grid. We're almost done. Now, taking A = 1, B = 2 etc, start to write letters in the new grid corresponding to their value in the old grid. The top left square, 25, should be a Y. The bottom right square, 20, should be a T. Complete the grid.. it looks like random letters, but now read DOWN the columns, left to right - a message to the would-be solver appears. Like Beale speaking to you from beyond the grave - spooky, huh?
It's a fairly obvious message, and not technically a "secret", but it's something to think about constantly while you go on trying to solve the Beale ciphers in this manner.
And now you people can't say I don't tell you anything. Not An Option.
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Post by Rebel KGC on Nov 6, 2006 8:50:35 GMT -5
Yo! Rebel here: ;D VERY GOOD, NAO... what was the message?
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Post by charlie mason on Nov 6, 2006 14:58:37 GMT -5
I thought that was a very interesting post Mr.NAO,when I get time I will check it out.However,Gil logy Strings are not quite what I'm into at this time.I do find them interesting though. As far as I have been able to determine ,I dont believe it will take a math genius to crack this thing,but it is great to see that someone is interested in something other than outlaw booty. As I was reading your post I thought I might add to the stuff I put out the other day and that is; May 9th Letter...Beale tells Morriss his instructions are specific,and also states "a good word to inquiring friends if there be any..". I have often thought "what does he mean by that statement...",could it be that the constitution is counted by ten as was the DOI,except that we only use the tenth word of each group of ten words in a similar vein to the DOI.. We should consider as well "When Morriss received the iron box from and then a few weeks later got the letter from ST Louis, until June 1832 thats all he had to work with..We should also remember that Beale stated the box could be opened by removing the lock...In his statement to the author of the Pamphlet,he didn't remove the lock,he had it broken to open the box..So with these thoughts to consider,I got to thinking maybe I should put myself in Morris's place June 1832 and tried to figure what am I looking at... I sit here pondering the letter and read contained within it are papers important to the Beale Party's financial concerns,some letters addressed to myself,and some papers that are encrypted,(we know this because Beale states a key will be needed to explain them),he states that such a key was left in the hands of a friend in this place,thinking that maybe the key That has not been received at this time something else needs be learned before I can unlock the box..what is it? It is now,I notice some peculiarities in the letter.. 1.Beale has misspelled my name 2.Beale claims to have given me instructions concerning the box,(other than keeping it for ten years,there are no other instructions evident except those regarding the letter in case of death or sickness. 3.No key has arrived as yet and probably never will,(so,what is to happen next?) With these thoughts in mind what can I deduce.. 1.Robt.Morris is a famous American (signer of DOI,Articles of Confederation,and Constitution,also first Financial Minister to the Confederation Government. 2.The first paragraph of the letter seems to indicate the date of the constitutional convention,of Robt.Morris Esq. was a participant. 3.Hold the box for the period of ten could signify counting the document in groups of ten,( a good word to inquiring friends could mean,we only use one word out of each ten word group.. Having done all this what now..WE OPEN THE BOX! Now what ,,,We read the letters and look at the codes of course...first instruction go to place of deposit secure the contents... I dint have time to go any further with this at the moment,but I should think it can be followed plainly from this point.. gotta go truckin bt clodhopper
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Post by TOMm on Nov 6, 2006 20:50:20 GMT -5
Evening ya' ll you fellas have some interesting stuff here but now im going to give what I think is due to false or idile pnctillio Most people are missing a number and its stated where wards states MARKed number the number is important but more important is the word Mark the book of MARK and if you see codes correctlly it will give you the word Fisher in mark look at it GOOD the number and chapter ard verse are there We have been to the old fisher place and in the floor was a 13 star flag when we unfolded it that was a mistake, it fell apart tis of course my sol opinion that more then one book was used because of the other books named in the pamplet I intend to go to this place in the spring TOMm
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