David
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Moving on to new horizons
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Post by David on Oct 6, 2007 8:24:38 GMT -5
NAO
The answer IF NAO CAN READ THIS HE HAS TXRNED A "KEY" the rules were layed out by the author of the papers
With the solution you might back track and figure the method
David, that me, A Pathfinder
PS: NAO don't get me wrong with what I post, I think you are probably a guy to sit across the table from for an evening with a 24 pack of TOOHEY'S (I developed a task for it years past) and debate this subject.
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Post by legrand on Oct 6, 2007 12:18:41 GMT -5
"Idiots".......careful NAO, the "internet remembers for a long time" or something like that you said.
When you said "prompt people to use the numbers in a different context". Exactly.....
Say three "outcomes" are possible in a cryptogram like B1....two of which say something but without effect, but the third actually leads to the treasure that was intended. This may not be "cryptography" because it is not rigid and standardized, but the effect, however, is the solution of a puzzle and the suspected location of a treasure.
"Cryptography" is the round sponge in a round hole....precise, standard....objective. But....the square sponge (which does exist) in the round hole also works to hide the message except that it is subjective....pliable....able to be shoved into the round hole....more like the phrase I coined being "literary steganography". Look through a pair of "green spectacles" NAO - I know it may be hard for you since you're so standardized. Poe needed two ways to encrypt a message with the DOI in B1. Simple task, right? Wrong. B2 (and the Gillogly string in B1) is first letter of the DOI word and then the first 16 numbers of B1 is last letter of the DOI word. It's simply brilliant as Poe was.
Now this will spin your mind....I knew of the suspected treasure sites (because of other clues) before I discovered the "Beale Papers" mystery in 2005 (July 30 to be exact). Poe was responsible for my treasure cognition before the "Beale Papers" discovery and AFTERWARD when the B1 cryptogram was tied to the whole by synthesis. Point being: open your mind to something other than rigidity. Poe did. His reward was a near perfect veil for his message. Turn 180 degrees and look at the view from a different angle.
Did you read about "ERE FEN DUE RED KNEE"? You haven't said. The only thing Poe had to do was encrypt "ERE FEN DUE RED KNEE". The rest of B1 (besides the Gillogly string) and B3 entirety is not important....moot....and likely random gibberish.
Think synthesis.
P.S....If you're comparing the "Bible Code" to "ERE FEN DUE RED KNEE," you're comparing apples to oranges. They're not the same thing. And why do you and David keep spelling the name "Gilloughy"? It's Gillogly. He is brilliant too.
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Post by TOMm on Oct 6, 2007 14:37:49 GMT -5
HI GENTS
ISNT MY STING OF 25 Es WORTH INVESTIGATTING OR MAYbe THAT is THE ONLE FREE TANGIBLE THING I GAVE AWAY ON THIS BOARD UNLESS SOME WORK AND READING VERSE BY CHAPTER IS INCLUDED. IT NOT WORTH ANY THING ; THERES A LOT OF THINGS I COULD SHOW AND ENHANCE TRREASURE SEEKERS KNOWLEDGE BUT I LOT I WRITE IS FOR THE HOPES SOME ONE MAY READ BETWEEN THE LINES
JUST PROGRAM YOUR COPUTER TO LINE UP 25 eS ALONG WITH THE OTHER a b c s VERTCALY AND YOU.LL HAVE IT ALSO BUT NOT MISPELL ANY WORD OF CONTENT OR PARAMETER IN OTHER WORDS NO ZIG ZAG.
1 aND I THINK THE MAIN REASON THE B Tre AS U Re has not been entirely claimed is 1 lack of pl;ace names 2 dishoner of the members family 34 not knowing its part of the LEAEB REST ARUE .(Beale Trea sure).
TOMm
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David
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Moving on to new horizons
Posts: 134
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Post by David on Oct 6, 2007 15:23:37 GMT -5
For Legrand,
I suppose I used the spelling Gilloughy because it was used as such and mis-spelled in something I was responding to and also possibly because of habit........in words containing.... oug... they are often followed by an H..as in enough dough cough thought and what have you...and a happy finger typing could out of routine just follow through and add an H...for habit....If my mis-spelling his name due to my lack of familiarity with it and/or for my lack of researching its correct spelling before using it has caused some sort of distress on his or your part I apologize. I will refrain from it in the future. It was not on my part, an intentional infraction or intended slight toward the gentleman.
And I am glad to see your self esteem is high by the accolade you explicate with "He is brilliant too." Interestingly... literary steganography
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Post by legrand on Oct 6, 2007 17:33:53 GMT -5
Hi David,
Hope all is well with you.
No need to apologize or explain about a mis-spelling, David.
Jim Gillogly "is brilliant too".....like Poe, I meant. Funny, that "literary steganography"....isn't it?
Would be interested in hearing your method of encryption of your plaintext above. I see the "X" for "U" in "turned" -- could it be you were using the end letter of the DOI words? I too could not find a word that ended in "U". There was none in the DOI, correct or uncorrected copies.
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David
Senior Member
Moving on to new horizons
Posts: 134
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Post by David on Oct 6, 2007 19:19:56 GMT -5
Legrand, As to your question, The answer lies here www.angelfire.com/pro/bealeciphers/Page26.htmwith one difference I used 2 and then 3 the number 764 exceeds the count in BC2 & 3 so therefore it became an X or unknown but did not invalidate reading the word. It's usage was necessitated by the absence of a U in BC3 as deciphered by the DOI I will not elaborate further on this method or where it leads at this time...quizical individuals may, with thought, see where it heads......... David
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Post by legrand on Oct 7, 2007 6:41:56 GMT -5
David and Charlie Mason
I am impressed. I just read your "Method of Encryption Found Within The Beale Papers" article.
Not only was it interesting beyond description, it fully supports my findings that Poe was the author of the letters and code papers of the Beale Papers mystery. Unfortunately, your method does not (at least at this time in your writings) lead one to a hidden cache of some sort. That is where my research comes in with "National (Beale) Treasure....At Red Knee".
I am proud to have you as a colleague and see our developments as not an ending to the Beale mystery, but a beginning of a new phase. Progress is being made I'm happy to say. As far as my "POE" signature in the Gillogly string when you read about it, you can include this in your investigation of POE signatures. One note, your "POEX" signature.....perhaps the X simply meant like "your John Hancock" or place your "X" here [ a signature!! ]? Just wondering.
Keep in touch.
Legrand
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David
Senior Member
Moving on to new horizons
Posts: 134
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Post by David on Oct 7, 2007 17:15:13 GMT -5
Legrand Glad to see you approve
David
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Post by Not An Option on Oct 7, 2007 17:33:07 GMT -5
NAO The answer IF NAO CAN READ THIS HE HAS TXRNED A "KEY"the rules were layed out by the author of the papers With the solution you might back track and figure the method David, that me, A Pathfinder PS: NAO don't get me wrong with what I post, I think you are probably a guy to sit across the table from for an evening with a 24 pack of TOOHEY'S (I developed a task for it years past) and debate this subject. Sorry, but for reasons as mentioned before, I won't be backtracking from your solution to try and figure out the non-standard encryption scheme. I have enough little spare time as it is! This can also serve as a post to the others on here who piped up with HEY MISTER MY SOLUTION IDEA IS NON-STANDARD TOO, HAVE YOU RESEARCHED MY BIZARRE AND SPURIOUS CONNECTIONS??? I have absolutely no interest in cross-checking or debating spurious solutions, so I will NOT be reading Poe's biography or looking up Dutch words or checking the coincidence index of finding 25 E's under another scheme... This post was about logically-consistent, dare I say scientific approaches to the inconsistencies of the Beale codes. I brought the Bible Codes up to demonstrate the worthlessness of attempting meaningful results without 1. substantiation or 2. logical steps. If anyone is absolutely serious about putting forth their method for discussion with me on this thread, they can list in order the steps of their decryption process with regard to the above. I don't want to appear that I'm not interested in discussion; this message board is all about discussion [including across the table with some Tooheys, a most welcome offer, thank you David], but it's also about logical, straight-forward approaches to the Beale problem. If you want to try other approaches, why not go start your own posts about them? Thanks, NAO
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Post by charlie mason on Oct 8, 2007 2:31:44 GMT -5
dear Mr.NAO, I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings,but having been somewhat familiar with crypto methods from training in the US Air Force communications systems ,I will say this The Beale Puzzle does follow the rules of standard cryptography for using a book cipher methodology if you read the pamphlet and follow Beale's instructions its not that difficult to fathom.Like most people apparently you dint read and comprehend cipher speak very well..So I will give you a great clue to think about ,,"WHEN YOU READ THE BEALE PAPERS REMEMBER THIS ONE SIMPLE THING...WORDS MEAN THINGS"".If you keep this in mind and a copy of a good FUNK and WAGNALL you will be surprised at what you will discover about this game.. bt clodhopper
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Post by legrand on Oct 8, 2007 7:43:26 GMT -5
Charlie.....Amen.
NAO....."spurious solutions"(?)......tough phrase. Wow.
You said, "If you want to try other approaches, why not go start your own posts about them". Well, my answer is that you would not be there to refute, so I write on this thread.
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Post by Not An Option on Oct 8, 2007 9:37:04 GMT -5
dear Mr.NAO, I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings,but having been somewhat familiar with crypto methods from training in the US Air Force communications systems ,I will say this The Beale Puzzle does follow the rules of standard cryptography for using a book cipher methodology if you read the pamphlet and follow Beale's instructions its not that difficult to fathom.Like most people apparently you dint read and comprehend cipher speak very well..So I will give you a great clue to think about ,,"WHEN YOU READ THE BEALE PAPERS REMEMBER THIS ONE SIMPLE THING...WORDS MEAN THINGS"".If you keep this in mind and a copy of a good FUNK and WAGNALL you will be surprised at what you will discover about this game.. bt clodhopper You know what? I'm calling your bluff. Folks, if you met someone who had never heard of the Beale ciphers before, you could instruct them how to decode C2 via the following: 1. Number each word in the pamphlet DOI 2. For each number in C2, look up the corresponding word in DOI and write down the first letter of that word until the message is complete. There we go, 2 steps. The code is rational, easily explained, logical, consistent... everything that I've been posting about. This is what real codes look like. Even the German Enigma codes [which are incredibly complex] can be described as a simple system of gears, plugboards etc. When I see people on this board not only refuse to explain their code-breaking methodology but then drop cryptic 'hints' like "It's obvious, read the pamphlet again, WORDS mean THINGS" or "Do some more research into anagrams and POE", it's painfully apparent they've got nothing in their hand and they're trying to bluff me out of the pot. People who know what they're talking about don't need to hide behind smoke and mirrors. I urge these people to either prove me wrong by showing their methods to be logical, consistent etc [as above] and thus in keeping with the entire purpose of this thread (this isn't the crazy conspiracy theory thread) or otherwise take their arguments to someplace where they'll be both appreciated and understood, if such a place exists. NAO
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David
Senior Member
Moving on to new horizons
Posts: 134
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Post by David on Oct 8, 2007 11:13:22 GMT -5
NAO WRITES: When I see people on this board not only refuse to explain their code-breaking methodology but then drop cryptic 'hints' like "It's obvious, read the pamphlet again, WORDS mean THINGS" or "Do some more research into anagrams and POE", it's painfully apparent they've got nothing in their hand and they're trying to bluff me out of the pot. People who know what they're talking about don't need to hide behind smoke and mirrors.
I urge these people to either prove me wrong by showing their methods to be logical, consistent etc [as above] and thus in keeping with the entire purpose of this thread (this isn't the crazy conspiracy theory thread) or otherwise take their arguments to someplace where they'll be both appreciated and understood, if such a place exists. NAO[/sub] Well NAO, At one point I gave you a Web Address to go to and read something I wrote concerning a Method of Encryption found within The Beale Papers and asked you to go there and read it, and then refute it. I did not copy and paste it on this forum because of all the formatting involved. I believe this writing meets your above requirement. Go to this site and read it and then come back and comment on it. Here is the Website address again: www.angelfire.com/pro/bealeciphers/Page26.htmAnd after you have read it and acknowledged reading it, then by all means feel free to lambaste it and what it may or may not represent. A comment on the good, the bad, or the ugly of it was why it was originated and posted in the first place and if you need more explanation about I will be happy to provide it in a discussion. Nothing Cryptic about it or how it was done: David Mason
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Post by charlie mason on Oct 8, 2007 14:11:26 GMT -5
Mr. NAO, It is truly apparent you are as you claim an amateur.I dint think you are familiar with the American Sons of Liberty and their Committee of Correspondence letters. Before you make the claims about how arrogantly ignorant we are maybe you ought to educate yourself about what you are trying to say. Passing information through misstatements or misspelled words is one of the oldest cryptography methods known to man.Even Mary Queen of Scots lost her head because she used such methods as well did Sir Walter Raleigh. The very first cryptic evidence is on the title page ,the Author's price fifty cents ,this was not the publishers price for a penny publication but the Author. the words anagram to fifteen cryptics . So you may well assure yourself this game is going to be a cryptic fun fest.. The entire pamphlet is full of clues and hints and as I said before you must read and understand words mean things not only their spelling ,but the context in which they are used. Just because this puzzle was created more than a century ago does not mean that whom ever its creator was, was ignorant . So I want to add one more thing to what I've already stated this puzzle isn't really difficult,but it is time consuming So understand fifteen cryptics and understand Santa Fe is an anagram for "A Fasten" which just happens to be a lock and if you pursue the puzzle then you should be well on your way. "READ AND KNOW ....WORDS MEAN THINGS....." bt clodhopper
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Post by Not An Option on Oct 8, 2007 22:42:59 GMT -5
Mr. NAO, It is truly apparent you are as you claim an amateur.I dint think you are familiar with the American Sons of Liberty and their Committee of Correspondence letters. Of course I'm not - I'm not a Beale history researcher and I've never claimed to be. You can quiz me on all sorts of Beale names, dates, locations, letters from Confederate soldiers, insane anagrams and the Morriss' shoe size and I'll get them all wrong. My approach always has been about using cryptography and scientific procedure to analyse the codes, something you're not familiar with or you wouldn't mistake what you're doing for cryptography. What you're doing is attempting to find significance and patterns in everything you read, regardless of the need for a central underlying consistency. The only reason you describe a 'Gestalt Psychology approach' is because you can't tie all your 'discoveries' into a single, logically consistent solution, so you just rattle them all off, jiggle them around and hope someday, somehow, the clear message pops out, much like the aforementioned Bible coders. I beg your pardon? One of the oldest cryptography methods known to man? Have any good examples? For instance, Mary Queen of Scots DIDN'T use that method [which I suspect you've made up yourself], she used a combination of subsititution cipher and code words (including null characters). It's called a 'nomenclator', if I recall correctly. If you're willing to try to make that up to support your argument, I begin to wonder just what else you've made up.. The price of the publication was 50 cents, and that's the end of it. Whether or not the price can be rearranged to spell other words isn't relevant. The publication had a price on the cover so it could be sold, that price was an extravagent 50 cents [which could be demanded given the untold wealth the reader was practically promised] and that's why the cover says 'price 50 cents'. I mean, anyone can lose their mind, watch me do it.. Hey everyone, the cover says "Price Fifty Cents". I can rearrange the letters to spell "Insect Crypt Fife". Insect is a BUG, as in Poe's THE GOLD BUG, which is all about CRYPT-ography and CODES, so it's saying Gold Bug Code, and Fife is an instrument which is something you PLAY so Poe's saying "I'm PLAYING with you via CODE much like my GOLD BUG story". Wow! And all this 'proof' just from the price of the pamphlet on sale If you want to borrow my above Poe = Beale author analysis, Charlie, I'm going to insist upon a royalty. What size royalty? Price: fifty cents. Words do indeed mean things, people. But sometimes we read more into them than we should. NAO
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