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Post by Rebel KGC on Nov 15, 2009 7:36:31 GMT -5
;D OK, tell us the answers, and about the guy from Michigan... THANKS! ;D
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Post by Ron Gervais on Nov 15, 2009 7:59:48 GMT -5
Gentlemen: Rebel, you have been reading. I'm impressed. Beale, the link works for me, so copy and paste. I sympathize with your objective to keep the dream alive. I agree it is more interesting that way than the reality check I present. So in the interest of equilibrium, here is my contribution to promoting the dream. In 1949, an unnamed colleague of Col. Friedman went to Lynchburg in search of information. The link below is his report (also from the George C. Marshall foundation archives) back to Friedman. www.angelfire.com/pro/bealeciphers/Graphics/We_left_Saturday.pdfNow after all that, for all of you that are believers, I recommend another hobby which you will enjoy, here: theflatearthsociety.org/cms/
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Post by Rebel KGC on Nov 15, 2009 8:23:21 GMT -5
;D Thanks, Ron... I know about the "flat-earthers"... gotta remember that it was a "documented" belief, based on "church teachings"; with subsequent research, "flat-earthers" were PROVEN wrong... so was "Earth is the center of the Universe", so were "Earth was created in 7 days" ppl, so were "man can not flt" ppl. SO! To "lump" ALL of us in yer STUPID, CHILDISH, "flat-earthers" judgemental statement, is just that. On the ground, we SEE things here, we HEAR from the old-timers, too. YOU can do all yer selective reading, selective history, you want; it was ONLY after P. Innis released in 1964, GOLD IN THE BLUE RIDGE that the story became "mass market". Your letter is GREAT, and I WILL make a copy, for MY R & I file. if you have MORE to share, PLEASE do so... just don't need yer STUPID, CHILDISH B.S. BTW, I copied yer CSA/Beale Treasure info from yer web-site... even the Brad "paper"; "more angles, than Jennnifer Lopez"... LOL. ;D (SUNNY out).
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Post by Ron Gervais on Nov 15, 2009 8:58:36 GMT -5
Watch the blood pressure there Rebel. Not good for us "old timers". Keep smiling, much better.
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Post by Rebel KGC on Nov 15, 2009 16:36:59 GMT -5
MEAN "Old Timer"... "talking" about the many "angles of Jennifer Lopez"? YEP, that'll do it... LOL.
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Post by beale on Nov 15, 2009 20:39:26 GMT -5
I would believe Ron except for a few things such as rebel mentions. I have talked to locals and other treasure hunters as well including Mel Fisher. There were a lot of the kin and family searching for this treasure from the beginning. Newton Hazelwood was boss of Clayton Hart and he had the eight sheets of codes on paper and this was in the 1890's, thus the quest of Clayton and George Hart began. Clayton did not give up on the Beale Treasure search in 1912 as many suggest, he searched up until his death. He bought property to search for the treasure in two different locations. He talked to people involved with the story in the Job Print Pamphlet, obtaining a copy for himself. He wrote a book and journal on the subject which I would love to find but have been unsuccessful. I do know what he was looking for and why. Clayton Hart was a son-in-law of Isaac Otey as was Paschal Buford. Their other connections to the Otey, Buffords and Lucks. If you search into their marriages you will find the common denominator that Clayton Hart was looking for, only Clayton made a mistake he was searching for the granddaughter and not for the original mother and families property-----------I know where that property is located. You have to go back to the original landtracks of Bufford's to figure all of this out. I only want to check out one location, dig and settle this mystery once and for all times. I am still waiting on the landowners or for them to sell to another landowner. I have been to the burial site. I do not believe the story was a dime novel as I have facts to back up the story from and before the Beale Party left Bedford County in 1817 up until the Hart Brothers did their hunt. It all fits and it is still there to be recovered.
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Post by Ron Gervais on Nov 16, 2009 7:17:04 GMT -5
Reb, yes, JLO does it to me too! Beale, thanks for the comments. You bring up an excellent point. I had not heard that Clayton had spoken with the employees of Job Print. Where does that info come from?
Now here's the question. I don't believe the Beale papers (the original papers from the trunk) ever existed... it was all dreamed up by Sherman. Conveniently, by 1885, all the direct witnesses (Morriss, his wife, the Buford tavern owners, etc.) had all died. Also conveniently, per the Hart Papers, the original papers were lost "in a print shop fire". The only fire ever reporterd (per extensive reading of the newspaper microfilms) was the 1883 event, where both the Virginian newspaper and Job Print were burned. TWO years before the booklet! And if the papers existed and were there, they were there for the booklet, and therefore there was no reason to keep them secret. So who else saw them? Where are the witnesses? In his visit to the print shop, does Clayton have anything to say about that?
I wish you luck in your quest, but don't give up your day job.
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Post by Rebel KGC on Nov 16, 2009 8:04:05 GMT -5
;D Ron, you see NOW... why subsequent investigations helps; I know you "addressed" the "question/concern" to beale, and I am certain, he will respond. The fire alluded to is DIFFERENT than the 1883 fire; I know about that one, too... as the Lynchburg, Va. Fire Dept. had a "memory day" THIS year, at the FIREMAN MEMO- RIAL here. The fire AFTER 1883, was REALLY copies being fed to a pot-bellied stove. The ONLY ppl who knew of the story per 1885 "job print" were those, with the "need to know"; very selective, "inner circle" types, of which I think Jubal Early, T.T. Munford, etc. were members of. It was VERY "hush, hush" PRIOR to Innis & 1964 "release" of GOLD IN THE BLUE RIDGE. (SUNNY out).
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Post by Ron Gervais on Nov 16, 2009 9:50:01 GMT -5
Sorry Reb, no sale. The book was advertised 84 times for sale at 10 cents in 1986. There plenty of copies. It was NOT hush-hush.
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Post by Rebel KGC on Nov 16, 2009 10:30:12 GMT -5
;D YOU misunderstood me... AFTER the pot-bellied fire destroyed the remaining copies, and the THEN generations... passed away. YOUR copy of letter to Clayton Hart was dated 1938. Col. Friedman was in Lynchburg, Va. in 1949... NOT many ppl WOULD remember 1885, "on". Ppl in Lynchburg, Va. in 1949 or so were PROBABLY suspicious of ANY G-Man coming around and asking questions of "events" PRIOR to 1949 or so, ESPECIALLY, after WWII. YOU say the "Job Print" was offered for sale in 1986? At ten cent a copy? Lawd Gawd A'Mighty! WHERE can I get a copy? BTW, I WILL do R & I on J. P. BELL BOOKS of Lynchburg, Va. of "olden days", at Jones Memorial Library. Mr. Bell's memory went back to ONLY 1890. THANKS!
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Post by Ron Gervais on Nov 16, 2009 12:16:11 GMT -5
OK, you got me there... 1886! Now here's a couple more good questions:
If the pot-bellied stove fire was after 1886, and they were burning the unsold copies, for what possible reason would they destroy the original T. J. Beale papers and letters?
On the other hand, if those burned in the 1883 fire, how did the 3 ciphers and 3 letters get to the pamphlet two years later? By the author's memory? Or if those pamphlet pages were already pre-printed, why didn't they burn too?
By the way, I have confirmed that the original copy in the 1949 letter was the one sold to a private collector a few months ago. See my website Page 23 for details.
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Post by Greg on Nov 16, 2009 12:34:19 GMT -5
Hello, There is a old building off of the parkway on the horse trial. Someone told me that it was a tollroad is. the Chimmy is still there the last time i was down there, also meet some people looking were up there looking for the treasure. As anyone ever looked there before ? Anyone here want to email they glogwood@gmail.com
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Post by Rebel KGC on Nov 16, 2009 16:54:20 GMT -5
;D Ron, to MY knowledge, they ONLY burned the remaining copies... NOT the "orginals". Peter Viemeister has a copy of the "Job Print" in THE BEALE TREASURE: NEW HISTORY OF A MYSTERY; pg. 22 - 44. I think it was from a J. Beverly Ward descendant or something; Col. Friedman in 1949 MAY have been looking for the CODES (numbers), and I read somewhere, that the Marshall Museum in Lexington, Va. has a copy... DUNNO. According to the Jones Memorial Library, NOTHING pertaining to the Beale "mystery" was burned/destroyed in the Fire of 1883. Greg (Sgt. Greg?); that MAY be the Toll-gate of the old road to Fincastle, which is now a US Fire Service Road... wasn't it called BLACK HORSE "TAVERN" at Black Horse Gap? This is ALSO in Peter's book, pg. 72 - 74. Both beale & I have talked with Peter... A GREAT guy, and he showed beale & I some OLD maps, etc. I think he KNOWS more than he lets on... his LAST book, he calls it a novel... I call it FACTION; FICTION, based on FACTS; title...CONFEDERATE TREASURE COVERUP: DUTY, HONOR, & DECEIT. HA! BTW, the OLD Roads are now "Horse Trails"... I intend to "hike" the horse trails/OLD Roads, and take pics. BUCK Wright was on the OLD Road to Fincastle, with his dog, Tippy... and a load of nuts or something; he is holding an OPEN umbrella, which I read somewhere, was a KGC "sign" if it was a blue cotton umbrella. It was MOST certainly "out of place", on a SUNNY day, in the SHADE!
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Post by oloren on Nov 16, 2009 18:56:21 GMT -5
Does anyone here know about the house that's on the horse trail? Someone told me that it use to be a toll road. Could the treasure be near there .
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Post by oloren on Nov 16, 2009 19:17:34 GMT -5
Rebel Do u know of Johnson Mt in Bedford Co. So one told it was a supply road for CSA i know his area very will i would like to do some digging around up there . Just i do not have a metal detectors . I know they have some bullets up there
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