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Post by Not An Option on Oct 8, 2006 9:16:16 GMT -5
Tomm, This method reveals nothing, but it does make a lot more letters. That is all. I have tried about everything that I can think of using the DOI as a key, yet there is a lot more that can be done with the DOI, that I haven't thought of yet. As for your spelling out cyphers to words of the cyphers what is the next step. Secondly, you have SE-VEN-TYONEONENINETYFIVE and you say to put the commas and periods between them like in the JOB PRINT PAMPHLET, why did you not place commas between the TYONEONENINETYFIVE. Another thing I would like to add about your post is, it is not SE,VEN,TYONEONENINETYFIVE? It is SE, VEN, TYONEONENINETYFOUR, One ninety four not one ninety five. With mistakes like this, it makes it hard for me to believe that you could find your way out of town, let alone find your way through the mountains and find any treasure? This isn't very gentlemanly criticism from a fellow scholar, surely? Why, only on the previous page Beale, after I asked for a rational, logical explanation of how the codes were constructed (and thus deciphered by yourself - remember, you claim to have 'solved' the Beale ciphers) you said <i>"I could go on and on, but still you would not believe because I can not rationally give you the explanation that you are searching for. So, you either believe it or not.</i> The rules have to apply to everyone. So if I have to accept that you've solved it but can't provide a rational explanation, then sadly you too must accept that Tomm is also in control of viable solutions to the Beale (and other) mysteries without the accompanying rational solution. I'm actually happy with this too because it puts both you and Tomm in the same category, where I believe you belong. Good luck, Not An Option
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Post by TOMm on Oct 8, 2006 23:09:41 GMT -5
Dear Mr. Beale
Im sorry that your not feelling well you must of had a bad day
and i cant disagree with your punctillio and perferction Although though my system is plus or minus X; it was not pucntuated on purpose. in order to get other opions and yours is, evenly welcomed, as well as other astute and generous fellow homo sapiens. of intellect i trulely welcome your degradtional remarks; they make me think on a higher plain, when I compare them to love and hate and greed I realise, in order to raise ones self, one must lower another , vessel of clay, I have not cast the first stone, I am also made of clay; and some day will take another form theyby we are all equal when dirt is thrown. But a GREAT wise man once said "give and it Shall be given to you". Be it good or bad , deed or word, it will return to the one giving the seeds i was just wondering just wandering do you have any extra gold seed in your good garden of life? . if not i know some one that dose ! Get well soon and some day ill send my helicopter to bring you a basket of good fruit . TOMm
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Post by Not An Option on Oct 9, 2006 0:01:42 GMT -5
Since you are the only intelligent human being on this forum. You tell me why you are attacking my decipherment? I was not attacking Tomms analyst of the codes, I was attacking him saying that he has found gold bars inside of bricks-----he has found guns and saddle bags belonging to Jesse James and the like. This is not accusing him of not deciphering anything. I myself have not said that I have found any treasure by the decipherment of my codes. There for your attack is unjust and you are playing in the wrong field. I believe I will take my ball and go home. There is idiots trying to come out to play. I'm attacking your decipherment because I don't believe it's a genuine decipherment by any definition of the word. Deciphering a code works by determining what method and/or key was used and then systematically working on the code until the message emerges. Dropping probable words in and leaving them there when they violate the method/key (i.e. using a single number to encipher to different letters) makes it clear that you've disregarded the code and just want your 'solution' to be the right one. The only reason why genealogical data and names from the time period are in your solution are you crammed them in there (even when they clearly don't match the code, hence multiple meanings per repeated code number), and then you say your solution must be correct because it has all the right names in there. This is circular reasoning, or as it is more commonly known, bunk. Earlier on I believe you said something of the sort that you had always been gifted at solving cryptographical puzzles and just by looking at codes the patterns could emerge for you almost instantly. This claim is a ridiculous as you say Tomm's is that he's found gold bars and saddle bags. Just as you ask him to prove his claims, I ask you to prove yours. If you're really up to the challenge, I'll post a few cryptographical puzzles of my own, and we'll see how good (or not) you are at codebreaking. As for taking your ball and going home, well, you wouldn't be the first to retreat from the field when a loss was imminent. It's a good strategy. But it also means you don't get to claim that you've won. Yours Skeptically, Not An Option
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Post by DalusionNal on Oct 9, 2006 11:36:39 GMT -5
Dear Mr. Not An Option, I'm not picking at you in this post just addressing it to you because you demonstrate a Good measure of sense in dealing with the Beale Mystery. It seems the Mystery has gone from being a Mole Hill to being a Mt. Everest. Instead of trying to actually solve this mystery with sound reasoning, flights of fantasy have taken over. For every bad guy or villain in history there is a theory that he or she as the case maybe, is responsible for the Beale ciphers and the treasure associated with it, I have read these postings and can find absolutely no way to associate any of these theories with Beale. The only evidence there is a treasure remotely associated with the Beale Ciphers is the deciphering given in The Beale Papers of BC2 and the TJB letter dated Jan. 4th, 1822 about finding gold. Careful examination of the Trip West & The Gold Story given by TJB in his letters will produce implausibility of the story as written. From this those who wishfully want there to be a treasure have conceived the idea this story as given is only a cover story to explain their belief in there being an actual treasure and so have Jesse James, Black Beard, Jean Lafitte and so on and so forth burring it in Virginia. Based upon the only evidence available on the Beale Treasure, The Beale Papers, there is not any way to connect anyone else with this mystery other that the names given within the Beale Papers. If investigators are finding evidence of Jesse James, Jean Lafitte ...etc , having a treasure buried in VA., it has absolutely nothing to do with the Beale Mystery. Perhaps these people have found something in the Beale papers and this is their way of side tracking others into areas that have no re valence or bearing on the real mystery so that they will weary of. It seems this is working to some measure, ideas to help in solving this mystery are few and far in between, These forums are taking on a place to post your flights of fantasy. Useful information about The Beale Papers mystery is very hard to come by, Rock Hound should have a new section called Post your imagination here to help unclutter this site. No matter what is posted, no one has a solution to any of the ciphers or if they have it has never been published in a public forum. I hink if you was to really study The Beale Papers you would find that BC2 has not been solved, there is more to it than what is given in the pamphlet. as a solution. Comparison of the numbers in the pamphlet BC2 with the associated words of the pamphlet DOI and the solution (word for word) as given in the pamphlet ...ie.... I have deposited in the county of Bedford, ....does not match, there are too many errors. This is explained away by numbers being changed, printer errors, different DOI used and so forth....instead of trying to explain this difference away, why not think of it as part of the design and that BC2 is actually double enciphered. Perhaps the given decipherment should be used with BC2 numbers again incorporating the mistakes into finding a solution. Perhaps each letter of the given solution should be used like a word. AND at the point in the given solution where it says....."whose names are given in number "3" herewith." , names should be added, possibly of the DOI signers who were still alive in May 1822 or June 1832. My point in this is BC1 & BC3 will never be solved until the mystery in BC2 is.... Is there anyone out there that is still trying to solve the Beale Mystery? or has the SCIFI writters spoiled it all. Oh Poop!
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Post by Not An Option on Oct 10, 2006 2:31:24 GMT -5
As I said before in this post, extraordinary claims require extraordindary proof. Some of the major inconsistencies of the Beale story include 1. The author stating he numbered the passages according to their lengths but then the decipherment of cipher2 discloses the content of 'ciphers 1, 2 and 3'. And furthermore, the cipher's AREN'T in order of increasing length. 2. How words such as stampede and improvize appear some 12+ years in this text ahead of any other appearance in print - if they were really written on the date the pamphlet says they were. 3. Where did these 30 men come from and then obviously disappear without a trace, apart from the Beale pamphlet? 4. One of the numbers in cipher 1 is 2906, more than the number of words in the DOI. What other key is to be used? Why use a different key? 5. Various online sites have some fairly good statistical analysis that shows ciphers1 and 3 aren't composed in the same way as cipher 2 was. Are they made with different ciphers or are they gibberish?
I think the Beale story is just that, a story. Approaches that don't satisfactorily deal with the above problems or, as our new poster pointed out, ignore growing problems in the analysis aren't solving anything. Regarding the faulty encoding of cipher2, well, I'd be more inclined to put that down to human error and the tediousness of using a Beale cipher. If the errors were meant to contain a message as well, there would need to be an awful LOT of errors (i.e 6 errors could basically give you 6 new numbers.. but it's hard work to make an entire message out of 6 numbers).
Finally to those of us who are keen to draw connections all over the place ('now the last word he said was 3, draw three lines from the middle of the word outwards and you hit the letters B, L and A, which happen to be letters in BEALE so we must be on the right track'), complexity is your enemy, not your friend. Think of it this way - cipher2 can be explained in one or two simple sentences "Each n number corresponds to a n-th word in the DOI. Take the first letter of that word and write it down, proceed through the cipher and the message appears". If you need several paragraphs to explain a single section of your approach to the cipher, you're probably barking up the wrong tree.
With a rational approach you won't alienate those around you and people will have a better reason to accept your work. Absurd claims and accusations accomplish the opposite. Not An Option.
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Post by elwoodchaney on Oct 10, 2006 15:27:15 GMT -5
"Well, Sports-Fans! I see that 'none of you' have done anything to brag about yet!!"
David... I see that you have addressed your latest 'posting' to this person known as 'Not an Option.' Maybe I can save you some trouble. Remember, I recently sat down with brother Charlie, and spoke with you on his cell... and I asked him if he knew anything about who this person really was. His reply to me was... that "kydave" is 'Not an Option.' And who knows who else!
You know how you have been encouraging me to 'post' again on this forum. And I told you that I was NOT going to do so, because, as long as the membership of this forum, continues the use of 'nom-de-plumes' to hide their identities... because 'they are very small minded' and 'obviously "HAVE NO BALLS!" to stand behind their statements'... this method serves 'weaklings' very well. So, when everyone starts using a regular name, such as we are doing... I might return. No guarantees.
Now let me vent some other thoughts:
The "only" purpose I can find, for the use of The Declaration of Independence is... so that it can assist you in finding the C2 message 'code.' "YES!!! The C2 message has a 'code.'
You have to realize that "4 miles + 6 feet" are the basis of the C2 code. That being '46'... Psalms(hands) 46. 46 words in... "shake" Going to the end of Psalm 46... excluding the word 'Selah' and counting backward for 46 words... "spear." Giving you "shake-spear."
This method is then transferred to the "1776-- Declaration of Independence" in the following manner: How many of you have ever wondered about the 'alleged' months of 'nov + dec' as mentioned in the C2 message. These are "easily" found, in the Declaration of Independence.
Before going any further with this explanation, you have to realize this about using the Declaration of Independence in this mystery: NOTHING in the provided story, says that you have to use the "ratified copy" of it. Example: in The Beale Cypher Association copy of the Declaration, it is only numbered to the number #816. Why doesn't it go further... I don't know, and really don't care. Ron Gervais has it numbered to 1323. But this amount does not work for the C2 cipher, as I'm sure you know. But like Capt James Kirk, when faced with the 'no-win' "Kobi-ashi-maru" scenario, and not liking to lose... he changed things... so he would win. And so did I! I changed the count, to 1322. By realizing that... "mean time" was NOT 2 words... just 1(meantime). Remember? It will "come to you in time!" Which gives you the proper wording for the C2 message and explains other things. Don't be mis-led though. There are 'other' mis-counted word/words in the Declaration with other results. But those 1322 words gfive you the proper combination for the C2 cipher.
Also, there are other variations: The copy that Jefferson originally wrote(original Rough draught)... which wasn't to the liking of Franklin and Adams... so they removed words and re-instituted words they liked. Then they had the "revised" copy. Finally, the accepted copy. All "based" on the wording of The Virginia Bill of Rights by John Locke. So you see... Jefferson and the other delegates of the Continental Congress really had nothing to be proud of. They had simply taken the words and thoughts of Locke and used them to their own advantage.
Most would say that the Declaration "starts" with: "When in the course of... I say, it starts with: "The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,(notice the 'comma' after America-- showing this phrase to be a continuation)... When in the course...
Now... as for the 'nov + dec': 176 words in: "likely"... 3 letters in/3 letters across... kel In Latin... kel is also "dec" 176 words from the bottom: "denounces"... 3 letters in/3 letters across... nou... in Old English style is "nov" This goes on to other 'markers'... far too much to put here now.
For me, the numbers in all 3 of the ciphers, mean absolutely nothing because of the poor quality of their prints, which are easily mistaken for other numbers or simply un-readable. Only an idiot would try to reasonably hide something with this sort of print. Just won't work!!!
As for this "crap" about the numbers being 'doubly encoded' or any other method to be the proper method... just more 'CRAP!' This mystery has 'allusions' to every conceivable coding method known to man.
The only thing that is important to me... is the 'cipher number spaces' without the numbers(_ _ _, _ _, _ _, _ _ _ , etc, etc)
Well... I've gotta go now! Don't want to make you guys look any more incompetent than you've all made your selves look, already!
Elwood and don't forget... no proper names... no post
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Post by elwoodchaney on Oct 10, 2006 17:56:26 GMT -5
"ARF!! ARF!!! ARF!!!! My tree! Always has been.
Elwood
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Post by charlie mason on Oct 10, 2006 18:44:20 GMT -5
Master Elwoody,
I would like to inform you that I never said KYDAV was an option,what I told you was that he said you were "NOT AN OPTION", however, I'm just a toady from the razorback trying to chase that dotted line that will get me there and back again..
What I truly don't understand is why all these supposed code crackers that claim to have read and worked on these papers since "47",and are experts ,claiming to have chased all over Bedford County,Va and know all the clues and the people involved ,appear to have never actually took the time to have read these papers..That being The January 4th,letter from Beale to Morriss states "the key will reach you in time, and will merely state the contents of our vault with its exact location,and the names ....." , never seem to come into play when they are explaining their pursuit of the puzzle......
I truly don't grok shakespear or Jessie James and Beale having anything in common,but then I don't understand why a rainbow only has one side either...
But,it doesn't seem to complicated to read what the creator of the puzzle is telling us..why do we need to look at how strings and things can be dug out of this thing....
Not AN OPTION, perhaps if you took the time to truly read the papers,then you might become a little more optimistic of a solution and not so pessimistic in your appoach to it....
Unlike most of the others that post here I beleive the author when he stated that finding where to begin was most difficult,but that he did begin and yet he came up with the DOI ,which is something I still don't grasp how he came about it,for I have been unable to discern no inkling of a clue to lead me to the DOI as a key element of this puzzle.
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Post by elwoodchaney on Oct 10, 2006 20:46:45 GMT -5
Tell 'ya what Charlie... till you get 'some balls' and admit to everyone that you did tell me that 'kydave' was posing as "Not an Option"... don't call, looking to suck more info from me. Looks like your back to chasing Poe.
ELWOOD
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Post by kydave on Oct 10, 2006 21:22:25 GMT -5
Ha! Ha! Ha! Gimme a break! I only noticed when i read your post and then read Not An Option's it's like looking at twins! You two are the only ones that use quotation marks like 'this' instead of like "this"! I'm surprised nobody else has noticed. And your both always comdeming everyones ideas and "bragging" on yours so that tells me your a "match". But i don't think anybody here really cares who calls who what! Myself my only interest is reading the post and if i stand corrected so be it i, i could care less. I don't even look at those awful numbers anymore! Ha! Ha!
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Post by Not An Option on Oct 10, 2006 22:55:56 GMT -5
Some of you people need your head examined. I'm not kydave nor any other poster on here, I'm Not An Option and only Not An Option. I'm sure the administrator can pull up some IPs to confirm this should push come to shove. I'm guessing I'm the only Australian posting on the board anyway. The time zone difference between my posts and everyone else's should have been a major clue. Anyone who wants to persist with "I've discovered your secret identity" shows us clearly how valuable their time is. Speaking of which..
It's also sort of insulting that you'd think I had the time to waste by making up several aliases so I can, what, have a conversation with myself on here? Agree with myself to validate my points? I base my arguments on their own internal logic (e.g. "different encipherments of the same number suggests the code is not being followed" or "the more complex an explanation of the Beale cipher is, the less probable that it's right"), and frankly I don't care whether one, fifty or zero of you agree with my argument. I've structured it in an attempt to consistently discover the truth of the matter, and it's based more on logic than opinion. In other words, your opinion is worthless.
Get a grip, people. This is supposed to be about the Beale ciphers, not about being insane. If you want to do the latter, there's plenty of other places on the Net available to you. Yrs Tersely, Not An Option
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Post by kydave on Oct 10, 2006 23:41:26 GMT -5
Hope you find the key there Not An Option and i've noticed you've cleaned up your quotation marks from ' ----' to "--------" so no one should question your identity anymore. Welcome aboard!
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Post by Rebel KGC on Oct 11, 2006 19:22:04 GMT -5
Yo! Rebel here: ;D Good to see all new postings... I will remind ALL of you that I LIVE here in Bedford, been to Lynchburg, 2 - 3 times a week... talk to the "locals", AND have more than just the codes (worthless...); can do LOCAL research YOU can not... as does Beale... and Beale has been all over these mountains, probably MORE regularly than any outsiders... we want your ideas, etc. BUT absolutely NO attacks are necessary... trees, pissing contests, etc. etc. Mr. Cheney (AKA WildCard) knows what a rough terrain this is... SO... difficulty can/will be "had in it..."
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Post by Rebel KGC on Oct 19, 2006 21:17:42 GMT -5
Yo! Rebel here: ;D Beale, U have picked the BEST time of year to do this... soon, the ground will be too hard to dig... the mountains may be too slick to hike and "rockhound"... I plan to drink LOTS of "high-test", and do MORE "puter" research, on various treasures, etc... wife & I will look for another place to rent (near-by...); in the early spring, will get out and "rockhound"... LGA!
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Post by Rebel KGC on Oct 30, 2006 11:24:05 GMT -5
Yo! Rebel Here: Beale, sounds like a good idea on your way of breaking the B.C.'s... and sell it via "the Net"... I plan to wait til all leaves are off trees before I "rockhound", probably around December... gotta wear "blaze orange"... these pp are too "gun happy" for me... lol; with the leaves down, U can see the "old roads" better. In terms of mines... I know there are lots of mines on west side of Roanoke County off da Blue Ridge Parkway... with walking sticks, we can be "hikers", meanwhile scanning the area for interesting "further investigtion". Wife & I just got back from Shenandoah Valley (she is an Evangelist; had to "preach"... LGA!). We were on Rt. 33, going towards Harrisonburg, Va. and I looked at the Massenutten Mt./Peak (south side), and the sun hit that mountain in such a way, I saw a FreeMasonic Square & Compass (clump of trees, in the middle of rocks...). There was NO G (letter G...); according to FreeMasonic tradition, the letter G is for God or Geometry... but in the tradition of Treasure Hunters, it stands for GOLD! HA! HA! HA! It did make me think... probably my imagination...
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