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Post by David Mason on Mar 23, 2005 10:35:57 GMT -5
For KyDav ;D
Haven't corresponded with you for a while.....found your post interesting......resend me your email address and I will send you a bit of up date to help find an order.
davidmason1@netscape.net
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kydav
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Post by kydav on Mar 23, 2005 17:14:18 GMT -5
David, Just posting to verify that i sent you mail to your other e-mail address.
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tjb
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Post by tjb on Mar 23, 2005 19:28:47 GMT -5
kydave,
I know how you feel. About the Beale I mean. I too get depressed over not being able to solve more or at least find a hint that the story is true. When you first start out on a hunt like this one there is enough to whet your appetite; but when you run out of ideas or at least avenues of attacks it gets frustrating. Also, you can look at the hard work others have put into this mystery, and still very little is known about the history of the story itself. It started out by being shrouded in mystery when the author didn't come forward and James Beverly Ward said he was the agent for the author. From there the story just turns from mystery to mystery and you can just about research throughout all of our countries history even up to Civil War and after that if you want to research into the Hart Brothers.
At times I want to throw in the towel also. But, something keeps holding me back, "But what about this, have you tried that?" Then I might get a whiff of a scent from out St. Louis or Sante Fe way. For us old dogs that have been on the hunt for several years it doesn't take much of a scent to continue the hunt. The younger dogs can't even smell the small scents we can pick up with our trained noses. Hang in there kydave, the best to you. I am sorry about your recent loss. I had mine last October. Let us continue the hunt! albert_hunter@yahoo.com
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Post by Wild Card on Mar 24, 2005 11:36:59 GMT -5
Now, 'ya see. That's the problem! You guys are looking at this thing 'in a conventional manner!' And that's the wrong way to go about it. Surely, by now, you realize that this thing is anything but conventional. This mystery wasn't created by a professional cryptographer. He didn't know a thing about the subject, except what he gleaned from his associate. He has had to rely on "mis-direction and mis-conception" to pull it off so far. STOP reading things into the mystery that aren't there! FIND the stuff that is there, that you don't see. "Y'all's biggest mistake was 'believing' that it was created by Edgar Poe, just because 'it resembles' something he might have created! And it "suckered" most of you guys right in... just like it was supposed to... and you guys took the bait... hook, line, and sinker!
And still you do it... believing that everything in the damned story is real. The precepts of the story are real, but all they do is 'cover-up' the rest of the real story. That's your job to find it... not to have it given to you on a plate!
Wake Up, Guys! "LOOK OUTSIDE the BOX!"... as the expression goes.
Wild Card
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kydav
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Post by kydav on Mar 25, 2005 14:40:56 GMT -5
Ha Wildcard, My point is i've looked in the box, outside and everywhere else i could think of and can't think of anywhere else to look, i'm out of fresh ideas. I do have to disagree about the person that wrote the numbers, i think he knew exactly what he was doing! I do agree that most of us aren't looking outside the box. We just want to break the code and hope the loot's still there, which i have to admit is a little more exciting than your approach. We don't care who wrote the letters or anything else about the mystery. Like everybody else i probably thought if i stayed with it for 10 or 20 years i would eventually break the code and a person with a high IQ could do it in half the time. But the people that are smart enough to break it are probably smart enough to leave it alone ha! Hope you can come up with something positive. But like you said if we knew for "sure" who wrote this thing that would change the whole approach and maybe bring it to an end once and for all. As for Poe, i did read the Gold Bug but haven't even considered him as the author since then but i'm sure some do everybodys got their own thing i guess so good luck with your method of attack!
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Post by Wild Card on Mar 26, 2005 13:55:57 GMT -5
C'mon David... I've told you (and shown you)and Charlie a million times, who created this thing.
Now think about this... does it really seem logical to you that, after 'giving away' the method for solving C2... that he would actually give you 2 more codes 'to solve', that would actually end this thing? AIN'T NO WAY! The other 2 ciphers... are, just something to enhance the story. And others to play with. Or else the 'game' would be over, far too early, and that's not what it was created for. A whole lot of time "HAD" to pass first... so that anyone involved, had long passed away.
Question is: has anyone else, other than my self... thought about 'another cipher'... hidden somewhere, that has to be discovered. Just a 'short, concise'... message. Unraveled by using the same 'method' as the original message.
Now think about this: A large text... perhaps, a book. And you read it. Page after page... but see no relevance, so you put it aside. But in doing so, it is read... from the start of each line, to the end of that line... and then you drop down to the next line... and do it again... page after page... until your finished.
BUT... what if this is the "anticipated" method! So, another course of action is taken. Just suppose... that to create an absolutely mystifying coding method, you choose to do this: In the creation of a story that you have written(so that you have complete control of its contents), you give each 'capitalized word' a value (ergo: D/avid = 4). Now your probably asking yourself: Why does the word David look like: D/avid Because... if you will remember!!!... when you anagram Thomas Jefferson Beale. Only by removing the capitalized letters T - J - B will it successfuly anagram out to: freemasonry safe hole. That '4' is then placed within the confines of, say, the structure of Cipher #2... "replacing" one of the original numbers, but keeping the 'commas' where they are.
But now, since the "anticipated" move would be to follow down the page... but your trying to be super elusive... so, you pick "one line"... say, line #4 to start with... but you don't go down the page... you go ACROSS the page... to the next page and line #4... and the next... and the next. Making sure that the dialogue on each page... discreetly places the 'word value' of the next numeral you want in your cipher... to be there.
O.K.--- those are my thoughts on it... and what I'm working on, when I get time. Reading and re-reading his works... trying to get a 'glimmer' of a clue to a book, he would have had to have written... but using another name. Something he did alot of times.
Like I said... outside the box! Wild Card
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Post by David Mason on Mar 27, 2005 18:09:11 GMT -5
Wild Card
To clarify something.............Kydav whom you are responding to is not me, David Mason, nor is he connected to brother Charlie. Kydav is a David but not this one.
Good luck on the new method you are pursuing.
Kydav some ideas will be in the mail shortly coming your way.
David Mason
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tjb
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Post by tjb on Apr 2, 2005 19:45:12 GMT -5
kydave,
I have checked into some of the methods of approaching the ciphers that you have posted. One I remember in particular. You mentioned something about a cipher repeating after uping one number. If you know what I am talking about, would you please post it again.
You had the same two or three ciphers the same after a cipher had gone up by a count of one. I wish I could remember what it was exactly you were referring to. Beale could have had hot ciphers every so often to change the count of letters or to take the first or last letter of a word or the first, second and then third letter of a word. If he did the DOI could still be the "KEY" I do beleive that the DOI is the "KEY" because Beale said he was going to leave the "KEY" with someone in this City. He did not say KEYS. It is like the combination to a safe or a combination lock, you have the same amount of ciphers but there can be thousands of hidden combinations. If this makes any sense to you kydave and you can remember what I am asking about please post again. It could be the pattern I am looking for. Many thanks. Have you ever hunted for the Swift Treasure down in your neck of the woods?albert_hunter@yahoo.com
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tjb
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Post by tjb on Apr 2, 2005 19:48:38 GMT -5
kydave,
The pattern you mentioned and I am asking about may the reason that I could only get 2 out of every 3 repeat ciphers right. The other 1 out of 3 that I could not get right was missing by one to two letters. Your explanation of the ciphers repeating after a certain number went up by a count of one may the answer I am looking for to make my decipherment 100% accurate. albert_hunter@yahoo.com
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kydav
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Post by kydav on Apr 3, 2005 11:14:25 GMT -5
Albert, What i've been seeing in these numbers is a slide rule effect working in a manner to spread them 100, 200, 300, apart plus or minus 1 taking them out of the numerical order they were in. Whoever put these numbers down used the number and position they were in to establish a system using pairs like 115,73,11674 etc. Putting one part on c1 one part on c2 and c3 etc. That's why he didn't use the number 100. Now don't get me wrong, this just could be an illusion to get math guys like me screwed up! The key could be the simplist thing like David Mason's theory of the mistakes involved. I know you have dabled with the frequency method with great results. I have also done this with the numbers, seems he used certain numbers more than others, in c1 he liked numbers that had 16 and 19 below the 1, likewise certain numbers in c2 and c3, all these should be e's using your method!Bottom line i think this is a two part nomenclator which was popular during this time period. He put something in it for all of us but i do think its a three step process. later
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kydav
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Post by kydav on Apr 3, 2005 11:28:43 GMT -5
Albert, I do have all of Micheal Paul Henson's research on the Swift's silver mines but haven't made any attempt to locate any of them. I have to think they have been mined out but there could be some ore buried nearby. There's a lost silver mine about 15 miles from me that hasn't been located so if i was going to try and locate one that would probably be it. I did listen to a lecture by W.C. Jameson down at Jellico Tenn. on the Swift's Silver Mines once though and info on the area around there.
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tjb
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Post by tjb on Apr 4, 2005 20:44:19 GMT -5
kydave,
There are gold and silver mines all along the ridges between Tennessee and Kentucky. Jellico and it's surroundings for about fifty miles would be a good area to search. Chief Doublehead had a silver mine on the South Fork of the Cumberland River not to far from there. Just South of Chief Doublehead was the homesite of Thomas Beale from Maco China. All of these areas are rich in gold and silver despite what the geologist say. I still like the areas around the headwaters of the Kentucky River. Maybe even the Licking River. Since this is the area West of the Forks of the Big Sandy River and at the approximate latitude and longitude that Swift mentions. Go look for that silver mine. Even if the silver mine is concealed there would be some tailings somewhere in the area or charcoal pits. They can't hid all of that. WIsh you luck kydave. I will pick the Beale Ciphers up and go over them later with your latest post. albert_hunter@yahoo.com
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kydav
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Post by kydav on Apr 6, 2005 9:04:39 GMT -5
That Thomas Beale homesite you mentioned must have been the place that Tommy Veals was talking about that he searched around since he did live in that area. Several years ago i researched this person and found where he had purchased a tract of land and gave his home address as Macon China, i always thought this was strange. God i hope you don't have to translate the code to Chinese! Ha! This was my first thought. Tommy told me he could find gold just about anywhere in the area. He said you just drill down and load the bottom of the hole with amonium nitrate and blast then pour a five gallon bucket of mercury down it then pump it back out. I said a five gallon bucket of mercury!!! That's kind of expensive ain't it? He just grinned! Anyway i always thought if i was gonna bury a treasure i would put it on my own property not somebody else's. later
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kydav
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Post by kydav on Apr 6, 2005 18:17:15 GMT -5
Just a quick follow-up on my last post. I feel like if there is a treasure, you can make an educated guess that it's on the property of one of Beales party. Get the names and where they owned property and your getting close to the vault, possibly could be buried at Grandma's farm, who knows.
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tjb
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Post by tjb on Apr 6, 2005 20:34:26 GMT -5
kydave,
I will tell you something, I have told no one. Well, I guess I am now going to tell everyone. Thomas J. Beall's stepfather was one of the five gentlemen that leased the Washington Hotel to Mr. Robert Morriss. I had to make several trips to Lynchburg and Rustburg, Virginia to find this out. Maybe his stepfather after selling the Washington Hotel bought land near Buffords. Something worth checking into.
Here is the meat of the research. Thomas J. Beall's father was originally from Black Mountain some called it Beall's Mountain. Just Southwest of Lynchburg. His first son, John was by his first wife. Eight more children were by his second wife. His tenth child, Thomas J. Beall born 1792 was the first born by his third wife. Her name was Elizabeth Chloe ________. Now after Elizabeth had six more children, family members began migrating to the State of Ohio. Some later moved to Missouri. Her husband didn't want to go, so they separated. Elizabeth went to Harrison County, Ohio and married Clifford Delaney. They later removed to Clifford's home town, Lynchburg, Virginia. Hard times were upon them, and they thought it best if they were near relatives. One of the worst depressions of the time set in a little before 1817.
So on many hunting expeditions into the Blue Ridge Mountains particularly around the Peaks of Otter, Thomas J. Beall (Delaney) became familar with all residents as well as caves and shelters to camp in during some of the cold nights while out hunting.
I believe if someone has the time and can find out where Clifford Delaney and his wife Chloe owned property in Bedford County, Virginia, you may very well find out where the Beale Treasure is located or has been buried. Robert Morriss or another Robert Morriss did own property in Bedford County just North and East of Kelso. Maybe Clifford Delaney owned property near him. I have photographs of Robert Morriss' home in this area. The house is still standing. It looks like a Plantation House build during or before the Civil War. Thomas J. Beall also owned a house about one mile Northwest of Robert Morriss'. You can find the location of Robert Morriss' Home on the Confederate Survey Map in Peter Viemeister's Book, "A History of a Mystery." I have photographs of this homesite also. The foundation walls are still there and the root cellar. There are two large walnut trees in the front yard.
I wish all luck on this, if anyone is lucky and able to find this sought after treasure, please remember to give me some bread crumbs. albert_hunter@yahoo.com
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